words with real bishes : cori

                                                               

welcome to the current install of words with real bishes! a forum for us to speak our minds about our shared experiences. note: in the black queer community, people are often referred to as family.

you see our beatbox is fresh and will blow your mind!

today i welcome cori, a brilliant artist and fascinating human person. you can check out her website here.

mslisa: to begin, tell me how we met?

cori: we were both artists in the in search of sheba art show in oakland. that was like over a year ago. there were 12 of us in the show. we met opening night, just hanging out. it was cool.

mslisa: where are you from originally?

cori: from chicago, the south side.

mslisa : what brought you to california?

cori: well...everything. what i wanted to do seemed more accessible on the west coast. my art, freedom, including being gay.

mslisa: no snow.

cori: no snow, no shoveling, no ice. that's really all i need to say - the weather. 

mslisa: when did you know you were family?

cori: in college doing my undergraduate study.

mslisa: tell me about the context of your work?

cori: my subjects are primarily women and women of african descent. i think i mostly paint black women because i see myself reflected more in my art. i believe there's a lot of strength in our culture and i want people to know who we are. i like to see (our bodies) in different angles, in prayer, or dancing, or in deep thought. it's interesting to me.

mslisa: tell me about your relationships with women?

cori: what do you want to know? that's a layered question.

mslisa: let me re-frame that :  what is happening in your relationships with women?

cori: right now not a whole lot (laughs). it's kind of hard to explain. i need that initial attraction, but for me personally there has to be an intellectual attraction as well. i find women more interesting. they share more, they're more open to being open. i speak from a place of being a lesbian and i have been for most of my life. i don't have a whole lot of experience to compare in terms of men. for me and what i've learned, women are just more fascinating to me.

mslisa: i agree.

cori: boredom for me is not an option either. men can totally bore me. sometimes i may get in a conversation with a dude and i'll  be like, 'man, i got to have you in my life!' but that's rare.

mslisa: would you ever be in a relationship with a man?

cori: sure. he'd have to be the right guy though. i learned this term recently - pansexual. have you heard of it?

mslisa: yes, but i'm not sure how that's defined. i'm still trying to figure out what cisgender means.

cori : i've never heard of that.

mslisa : girl! no clue.

cori: well the pansexual term is new to me. so is masculine of center, which is a fancy way of saying butch.

(laughter) 

 it's true! so what was the question? pansexual! i'm learning that i don't necessarily identify as much with being a butch lesbian as i thought i did. i would be open to a relationship with a guy if the connection was there, but i also love the energy of women.

mslisa :  the feminine sensual.

cori: yeah! what it is is that i find beauty in all human creatures. we're all accessible on some level. if i got to know someone and connected with them on a spiritual level and fell in love with that person that has meaning.

mslisa: regardless of gender?

cori: oh yeah. i think that's what makes me pansexual. i'm just discovering this about myself. i could love anyone. we all have free will to love who we want, but i know a lot of people in the gay community who have zero desire to entertain a relationship with the opposite sex.

mslisa: is there a degree of conformity in the lesbian community?

cori: i think so. i don't want to be placed in a box. i don't really care what you do, but i'm open to learning new things. i'm more concerned with being seen as a person and not just a butch lesbian to fulfill some role. if you think you know who i am - it's already over.

mslisa: right. i think it's important for us as black women not to carry all these assumptions towards one another.

cori: totally! i actively practice non-judgement and if i mess up, i check myself about forming (too many) opinions about people.

mslisa: ooo...i was doing that recently.

cori: we all do it. it's human nature. it protects us in some way. it's a quality that we all have and need, but i also don't want to be limited by my own prejudices.

mslisa: what do you mean by your own prejudices?

cori:  i consider myself the stereotypical angry black woman. i have issues with people outside of my community. i feel like the world is unfair - damn white people!  it's obvious that i'm prejudice. the fact that they're more likely to get whatever they want than i am. even if i get angry about it it's not going to make a difference. i'm still not going to get that thing. i notice my frustration is not hurting me, but it's not helping me either. it's not helping me heal, it's not helping me be more successful.

so i try to think differently and not get too deep into that. i try to see myself as selfless, kind, diplomatic, and loving. for me all of that is transcendence.  i can't get there if i'm angry all the time. i can't be that person if i want to be truly happy. who wants to die angry and bitter?

mslisa: i've seen that happen to black folks, particularly older generations. just mad all the time. they have property, they have money in the bank, they're safe, but their experiences being in america just broke them down i guess.

cori: exactly. i grew up where most of my friends were white in school.

mslisa: on the south side?

cori: yes, in the suburbs. then i went to college at SIU in southern illinois. i played softball and ruby. the only black girl on everything. that was my life for years. being out here is a whole other experience for me. i only have one white friend here. it's weird.  the point i'm making is that the world totally shaped who i am. i would have never said i had prejudice before, but now i realize i have a lot of hang-ups. i'm not making this up. this is me living life and having real interactions with people. being called a nigger and being told some shit that is clearly inappropriate and then having to process that when i didn't even expect it.

i was mostly taught, you don't really want to trust white people. at the time i didn't know about people the way i do now, but i'm still very cautious.

mslisa: i think we have to be sometimes. it's interesting to me with all the discourse going on now, particularly in the liberal and progressive community, that there's a sort of cognitive dissonance. i don't think they realize that to a lot of black folks white people are all the same; liberal and conservative.

cori: that's true. they don't see that, but then how could they?  i have one friend who is hanging on for dear life. i'm trying to hold their hand through the process. i don't need my friends to change who they are, but i need them to be compassionate and aware and thoughtful. that means you have to pay attention. you can't be self-involved. and don't ever say that racism isn't a problem anymore. you can't discount so many hundreds of years of oppression.  you can't pretend that something doesn't exist when it clearly does.

mslisa: i think as well, those communities tend to be isolated, despite their politics. everyone around them is a reflection of themselves; of similar backgrounds and shared progressive values. black folks also can isolate themselves. that's not me. i'm in the world and i'm not afraid of those uncomfortable conversations or spaces. i also have white relatives. i think for us to be healthy human beings, we have to be in the world with other people and not isolate ourselves.

cori: i agree. i'm isolating myself from white people mostly because of my issues, but i'm trying to heal myself.  it difficult because i can't deal with them.

mslisa: but corey you're a highly functioning individual.

cori: well, you're a sister, you see me, and you listen. you're like the second person i've talked to all week. i mean, i'm here, but i'm intolerant. i can't deal with white people. if i hear something fucked up or someone says something fucked up, i get all emotional and it throws me off. i feel like i have to protect myself.

mslisa: so you're walls are up?

cori: yeah, they're pretty high and i'm okay with that. i know it's not going to be this way forever. i'll change and over time i'll heal. being out in the world and interacting with people and getting more angry isn't helping. so yeah...that's real life and real talk. i don't know. i have to be more brave i guess.

mslisa: well you're being brave right now, putting yourself out there. talking to you is healing for me because i understand. we all have our struggles, fears, and anxieties.

cori: totally. i just want to be in a place where i can be confident enough to stand up for myself. right now i'm not.

mslisa : do you think that's going to be a hard process?

cori: i don't know. i really don't.

mslisa: do you feel that a lot of this discontent comes from being in america?

cori: yeah. i think i need to get out of the country for awhile. i mean, this vacation i'm about to have is going to change my life. i need a different perspective. i need to see outside the humanity that exists for me here. this is not us. like you and refa were talking earlier about africa and traveling. what's happening here in america is not us. everything i'm supposed to assimilate to is foreign to me. i'm bored here.

mslisa: bingo! i'll tell you, i've traveled a lot and i've been gone for weeks, months. it helped me unravel my american mind.

cori: right right! see, i need that. all i need is a frame of reference - even for my art. i need more depth of experience that is not just my black american experience.

mslisa: you know, one of my paintings in the sheba show i finished after being in belize for awhile.  i married a garifuna dude, i was running around in the jungle. i was teaching secondary school girls and bicycling to work every day. i didn't see a white person for daaaaays. it was like there were nothing but black people in the world. it was a trip! in my experiences abroad, i learned to devalue a lot of american things. in order to live here and survive you get caught up in the whole matrix. you can see it. people freaking out. it's a neurosis. whether it's about sex, money, success, envy; breaking their backs over a $ 600,000.00 mortgage. the fuck?! i'm cool with the american circus, the culture. i don't value it. i've disciplined myself to be somewhat detached, which is challenging because we are in it unfortunately.

cori: i hear you.

mslisa: it all came to a grinding halt for me around 2008. i couldn't afford to leave as long as i did before. i went to guatemala again in 2009, but i had to hustle hard to do that trip for just two weeks.

cori: me too! 2008 was all fucked up. i had a corporate job and that ended, which in a way is a good thing. if i was still doing that i wouldn't have time for anything, especially my art. i was making good money, but i was stressed the hell out. i didn't even take advantage of it like taking the time to travel. i was caught up in my grind.

mslisa: this is cool. we're really getting into it!  so, tell me about jimi's haze?  i like that piece.

cori: jimi hendrix has always been one of my favorite iconic musicians. (in my work) i like to match the spirit of who the person is or was. jimi's passion was unmatched in his time.

mslisa: one of your images, cori pillows was used in the flyer for the sheba show. can you tell me about that?

cori: she's from a portrait i did. pamela (the curator of in search of sheba) wanted to use her for the flyer and show poster. i was honored really. she represents the natural beauty in us and the community.

mslisa: it's a lovely piece. i kept a bunch of those flyers.

cori: thank you!

mslisa: you know, i never get used to seeing my name in a show. it trips me out. my art is kind of a private process. it's difficult for me to put it out there. i'm also lazy about getting my shit together, but when i do it's quite amazing the feedback i get. i don't see what others see because i'm the creator and rather critical of my work. i'm always thinking and reassessing and thinking; about composition, line, form, and texture. i can go for hours. basquait said being an artist is a constant process of addition and subtraction.

cori: i totally feel you on all of that. he was right!

mslisa: thank you for talking with me and being so open, sis.

cori: thank you!

words with real bishes : irma

                                                                             
Welcome to the latest install of Words with Real Bishes. I created this as a response to the current state of issues around race and gender in America, particularly for women of color. Since we don't control the media, what I do read or see is often filtered through a white gaze. I want us to speak for ourselves, to be our own media. Like Jodeci said, come and talk to me! 

Today I welcome my dear friend Irma. My nickname for her is Queen Irma because she is. We grew up together in Berkeley. I've always been impressed by her resilience, genuine kindness, and enduring charm. She also has the coolest laugh.

MsLisa:  Tell me how we met?

Queen: Girl, we met in 9th grade at what was West Campus back in the day. It's part of the Berkeley Adult School now.

MsLisa: What do you remember about us in 9th grade?

Queen: Well, we were teenagers trying to navigate life and figure things out through music and observing the people around us. You were the creative and artistic one. Between Celine and U, we were trying to find our voices, too.  We did bond over James Dean. He was our dead man crush (laughs).

Mslisa:  Who were La Blue Eyes and Geronimo?

queen: La Blue Eyes and Geronimo! (laughs) Geronimo was Matteo - I definitely remember him. He was so fine!  La Blue Eyes was this dude Aaron you had a crush on. We used code names in the notes we'd pass to each other in class. Nerd girls! (laughs).

MsLisa: When we went to Berkeley High for 10th grade, we didn't see each other as much. What do you think happened?

Queen: I believe our worlds opened up more once we went to 10th grade. West Campus was small. At Berkeley High we didn't have the same classes or hang out with the same people. It's a big school.

MsLisa:  How do you define Berkeley Black?

Queen: A Berkeley Black person who is not necessarily defined by being black. We're different culturally than say folks in Detroit or Atlanta, even Oakland. We grew up in a very diverse city exposed to all sorts of things.  Sure, I was a young black girl in Berkeley, but I loved going to the James Dean festival or to see Dance Craze at the UC Theater.

Mslisa: Berkeley High was the first public high school in the country to have an African American Studies curriculum. Did you take that class?

Queen: Nope. I didn't take that class or Swahili (which Berkeley High still offers as a language elective - hella cool!), but we had a lot of other options.

Mslisa: Back then you loved Adam and the Ants and David Bowie. What about their music appealed to you?

Queen: Well, the 80s was a very androgynous era. Adam fit the bill. He wasn't gender-specific. I loved the double drummers of the band and their lyrics had no connection to anything really. David Bowie too - the androgynous thing.  His voice is like a meditation to me. His lyrics are interesting and very symbolic.

MsLisa: What's your favorite Bowie album?

Queen: Bow Live. I think it came out around 1977.

MsLisa: After high school where did life take you?

Queen: I went straight to UC Berkeley for summer school. At the time it was just me and my mom. She wasn't in good health and I was also taking care of her.

MsLisa: Did you graduate from UC berkeley?

Queen: No. I had to drop out. My mother stopped working so the household responsibilities fell to me. Someone had to pay the bills. (sighs)

MsLisa: Do you resent that that happened?

Queen: Yeah, a little.

MsLisa: So, at a young age you had to go to work. Did you settle down with anyone during that time?

Queen: Yes, I've always been a serial monogamist. I was with Prentiss for for 15 years and we had two beautiful children. I met him at Berkeley High. Prentiss passed away in 2003.

MsLisa: Tell me about your kids?

Queen:  My kids are awesome! They're cute and really fascinating people. They helped me learn more about myself as a person and as a parent. They helped me develop my own belief system.  I feel like i have a degree in psychology now. (laughs)

MsLisa: What are your kids doing now?

Queen: My daughter just finished her first year at UC Merced. We lost PJ in a car accident about 5 years ago. I was actually closer to PJ when I think about it. He was an optimistic and lively kid. People just adored him! I think a lot of people appreciated that he was so genuine and caring. As he got older I had abandoned the whole traditional church thing, but PJ went to church every Sunday.

MsLisa: What church did he go to?

Queen : Progressive Baptist Church in Berkeley. After he lost his dad, I believe, he abandoned religion.

MsLisa: How did you cope with losing a partner and a child?

Queen: Girl, one breath at a time. Lots of therapy and lots of crying.

MsLisa: Did you have a good support system around you through all that? 

Queen : I have an incredible support system and a lot of love. It could be a hug from someone or a text message. I appreciate all of that very much. 

MsLisa : Tell me about the day of the accident?

Queen: It was around 1:00pm. I called PJ and I asked him if he had taken the cat to the vet. He said, ' Yeah, I took the cat to the vet. I'm driving with Kyle right now.' I heard Kyle say ' Hi ' in the background. The accident happened about 20 minutes after that call. It's interesting to me that he had posted a thing on Facebook the day before that said 

' Tomorrow is going to be short.' 

MsLisa : How did you find out about the accident?

Queen: I had come home from the store. I noticed there was a police car across the street. This cop approached me and asked me if we could go inside to talk. I said, ' You're making me nervous. Are the boys okay? '  Then he asked me, '...Is someone here with you? '

Then finally he told me what happened. They identified PJ by my name, which was tattooed on his left arm and Amri's name was tattooed on his right arm. He had his phone with him, his ID, and his uncle's watch. I still have the watch in a plastic bag. It reminds me of how Yoko Ono held on to John's blood-stained eyeglasses. I had been keeping a journal for PJ since he was a baby and he'll never read it. We had plans and everything - all of that was cut short. He never even finished the Harry Potter series, which he absolutely loved.

MsLisa : Do you feel he's still with you?

Queen: No. He's in my heart and Amri's for sure. He was my kid. Do I feel like he passed to another realm and he's watching over us? No. 

MsLisa: What has sustained you since that happened?

Queen: My daughter Amri.  I certainly wouldn't be here if it wasn't for her. I still have moments where I just fall apart. I can't listen to Forever Young by Alicia Keys. I can't hear Drake because he loved Drake. He never had the chance to go see him in concert. Everything....is just a matter of trying to hold it together. I have to be there for my daughter and try make it to that next breath.

MsLisa: When you think about the future for yourself what do you see?

Queen : Well, I plan to retire to Puerto Rico and definitely see Egypt. Paris! Especially because of Josephine Baker and James Baldwin. I want to see where they lived. I want to be hanging out with my man, whoever that may be (laughs ).  When I go, I want to go out with a smile.

MsLisa: You mentioned Egypt. In all the years I've known you, you've always worn an ankh, like your ring. What does that mean to you?

(c) Ankh by Jack Wan
deviantart

Queen : The ankh is a symbol of life and it pre-dates the cross. Prentiss bought me one about 20 years ago before he died. When I designed the headstone for me and Prentiss, I had an ankh added to it and an 8 ball for him. He used to show me how to play pool when I was really, really pregnant with PJ.

MsLisa: Did that headstone go to PJ?

Queen: Yeah, it was supposed to be for us; my mom had a plot at the cemetery for years. Prentiss and I had been together for a long time; going through all these ups and downs. So I planned a headstone with our symbols - the ankh and the 8 ball. I've told Amri that when I go, now I just want to be cremated.

MsLisa: So you don't want the ankh used in your passing?

Queen: Not if I'm reduced to ashes, no. I just want to go to Egypt and experience that. That would be enough for me at this point. I'm not tethered to an object.

MsLisa: In your professional life, what did you end up doing?

Queen : I fell into a 9 - 5  working at a local credit union, first as a receptionist.  My skills evolved into finance and collections.  When the credit union went through a merger, I ended up at the phone company. It was Pacific Bell back then. I didn't want any managerial responsibilities at first, but after about a year I took a management position.

Mslisa: What department did you work in?

Queen : I was a call center manager for the accessibility resources department. This was a call relay center for disabled customers - like TTY machines and transcription. We helped people with their bill and services. I managed a team of 15 - 18 people. I did that for about 9 and a half years.

MsLisa : Are you still in the same position?

Queen : No. I work in sales operations now. I liked both positions, but I enjoy working behind the scenes. It was an opportunity I couldn't pass up, so I applied for it.

MsLisa: What is your vision of Egypt?

Queen :  I've got to get to the Temple of Hatsheput. She was maybe 16 or 17 and she became a pharaoh. She was a bad ass! She was killed by an asp. She had a baby, I think by her priest and mentor. There's a small statue made of onyx at a museum in Cairo of a priest holding a child.

MsLisa : What draws you to Egyptian history and philosophy?

Queen : They were a dynamic and creative civilization. They honored their dead and made beautiful art.  The hieroglyphics told their stories and legends. I love all the natural stone and the fact that they were able to create such beautiful art and objects using rudimentary materials. It's amazing to me! They're a mystery and I think Egyptian culture is a wonder of the world.

MsLisa: Have you ever read The Book of the Dead? 

Queen: I haven't. I mean, if I had gone into archaeology I would certainly know more. I dig into things here and there; articles and sometimes fiction based on the Egyptians. It's fascinating to me.

MsLisa : Did you see the King Tut exhibition when we were kids?

Queen : Yes!I think it was at the de Young Museum. It was amazing! There was one statue of a queen called Ethiopia Awakening. I went up to her and whispered 'Hello'.  She's a bronze sculpture made by Meta Vaux Warrick Fuller around 1914. Fuller was a black renaissance artist who went to Paris to study under Auguste Rodin. 

When I was in DC, I went to the Smithsonian because I had to see the African-American section and there she was again. The queen! She was standing alone in a corner in a room. I was in the gallery by myself at the time. That was maybe 8 years after seeing the King Tut exhibit. I love that sculpture, I think, because she represents black women in America.

MsLisa: Thank you so much for talking to me. I love you, girl!

Queen: I love you too!

                                                                   

Ethiopia Awakening
Meta Vaux Warrick Fuller, African-American
(1914) 

words with real bishes : honeychild

welcome to the current install of words with real bishes! are you a beauty of color with a fierce mind and creative spirit? are you doing things big or small? go-getter? jet-setter? artist? avec les enfants ou sans? please email me here and let's chat. unleash yourself! 

today it is with great joy i introduce honeychild coleman aka DJ suga-free, an avant-garde musician and artist. we go way back to the poppin and rockin punk days of 1980s NYC. we were comrades and sisters. at shows we'd play a game called count the black girls.

mslisa: to begin, let's reminisce a bit and tell me how we met?

honeychild: we met in 1987.  we were both working at pearl paint on canal street (that's gone now). we were the two quirky and punky women of color there. i feel like i ran into you at a party, then we connected at work. it might have been at one of those clubs - the tunnel or the world maybe?

mslisa: the world and the tunnel! (laughs). oh yeah, all the beautiful freaks. what have you been up to these days?

honeychild: right now i've been on an artistic hiatus since i last went on tour. i'm working on a new solo record with a new producer. the music is somewhere between dance and post punk. i'm also working on a 7" with criterion thornton (brooklyn beats records). i play guitar and bass. it's kind of a noise punk project. i collaborated with DJ olive on THWIS, too.

mslisa: do you have a name for the band?

honeychild: no, we don't have a name yet. we're just experimenting at the moment. one of my longest collaborators is raz. we did the bedouin soundclash together. i'm the cultural mentor of the underground producers alliance. i'm doing an interactive tour of pre-2000 underground NYC.  i did about 20 sketches of old LES bars and clubs from back in the day. i also did one of the old condemned school on rivington that was hotel amazon. the whole idea is to preserve that time and place.

mslisa: i remember that shooting at hotel amazon one night!

honeychild: right? the lower east side was hardcore back then.

mslisa:  what else are you working on?

honeychild: i have a bunch of videos in the can and i'm learning how to edit. ramsey jones from funk face  and the rza, plays drums in my post punk band bachslider.

mslisa: tell me about the authentic black weirdo?

honeychild: so, here's something that came up a bit in afropunk. there's two kinds of alternative black people in my opinion.  i came to NY knowing i would find others like me and i'd be less lonely. i'm here and i'm black but i'm not here to be black; i just am. the other is showing out their weirdo blackness as a kind of fashion. you and i are the former, i think particularly of our generation. that's what attracted us to new york. we'd watch diana ross in mahogany together, eat fried chicken from the corner, then go to a punk show. we knew who we were.

now it's different with the advent of the blipster. there's more weird young black folks, but i'm not in any particular clique. we're from a different time. who knew there was black heavy metal in kansas? in the 1980s and 90s that was unreal.

mslisa: so true! do you feel that we often had to explain ourselves coming up?

honeychild: oh yeah. my family in kentucky are very conservative so i had to explain a lot of my choices and personal style. we weren't following tradition or conformity. we're at the age of our co-workers parents at this point. they can see the rift, but they can't really put it together. girl, we've been black weirdos a long time!

mslisa: who influenced you in your weirdness as a young girl?

honeychild: well, my aunts were like mod supremes with the beehives, skirts, and boots. i loved that. i grew up reading essence, and always saw lot of brown skinned models. i had an uncle who was an artist. he was full of stories and had a colorful personality. he made a strong impression on me to become an artist.

(as a kid) i probably watched four disco shows on saturday mornings. i would try to copy the clothes. grace jones came on soap factory disco in a cut-off tank top, satin shorts, and a robe. she looked like a super hero singing disco!  and then annabella - forget it. i was always drawn to punk, but she blew my mind. she wasn't trying to be white. she was just being herself; a woman of color and the lead singer of a punk pop band. she's still holding it down, touring with a young band doing old bow wow wow and solo stuff.

mslisa: i think she's in the realm of polystyrene and pauline black. sheroes!

honeychild: totally. pauline had a book that came out two years ago. it's so good.

mslisa:  you mentioned that you'll be touring in september? where do you plan to go?

honeychild: well, i want to play in france for sure, but the dates aren't set. i also want to play in louisville.  i composed a song for the climate change event that i think now is going into a competition, so i think i'll play for that.

mslisa: tell me something about your experiences touring and recording in europe?

honeychild: i was singing with the band here and there were two other americans in the group. one song called 'apart' became a hit and was in rotation in italy. we did a tour for several weeks and we opened for morcheeba and sonic youth. i was like this is the polar opposite of my life in new york! it was amazing. i really learned during that time how to be a performer. all the DJs i work with, we're always behind a mountain of gear. i learned to be a bit more free being out front. i had to be more serious about my voice and not damage my vocal cords

i worked with here for almost three years. then i started to meet other people during that time. seven years later i was touring europe again with apollo heights. after that i went back to my DIY style. it was a flip! i've seen both sides of it now. it was learning curve for me, but it was awesome. now i have a stamp in my passport that says i'm a professional musician. here was the most disciplined band i worked with. we'd pack our own food and rehearsed 6 days a week.

when i went on my first solo tour in italy, we stayed in this punk house in valvasone with no hot water or gas, but let me tell you the rehearsal studio was immaculate and it had internet. the other tour that we did when my record came out, we rented a house with tre allegre ragazzi morti  (three happy dead kids).  they have a huge garage they converted into a studio. we had to learn the whole album before we could start the tour. we did that for 10 days. we did vienna, berlin, and denmark. with the slits tour i left early. they had to show me a lot of stuff.

mslisa: how did you end up playing with the slits?

honeychild: ari was good friends with my friend dunia, who was in a big ska band. remember when i worked at canal jeans and i left to work for dierdre who had that dress shop on 5th street?  dierdre did a fashion show and ari came to that. she was there with her sons, pablo and pedro. i was like, who is this woman in these colorful clothes? i didn't know who she was because the only picture i ever saw of the slits they were covered in mud.

fast forward to 2008 and i'm playing with apollo heights. ari comes backstage and i remembered she's the german woman i met 20 years ago at that fashion show. she remembered me and her guitarist had pulled out of the tour. dunia emailed me and said ' ari called me in a panic and they need a guitarist. do you want to go on tour with the slits? ' 

at first i got immediately depressed because i was already working with apollo heights. i was told ari didn't believe in computers so you have to play everything in real time. i went home and studied all their videos, learned three songs, and went to audition for ari. most of her music was on cassette and i loved that.  it was not easy though. it really kicked my ass. i had to re-learn all these chords and i don't read music - that shit was really hard. i had two weeks to get it. the first gigs we did were in ireland and england. by the time we got to barcelona we were really tight. the whole tour was about four weeks.

mslisa: what was it like working with ari?

honeychild: she was amazing. ari didn't read music either, so her way of explaining how to play a song helped me out a lot. she said she's not intimated by other strong women. to her, the band is like a collective -  a girl gang against the world. everyone had a say. we all swapped around on songs, which was really cool. i instantly felt like i was part of the group. one thing she did the entire tour, she was very clear about protecting the band and its legacy. she spoke of the slits as a unit. she was a champion for the underdog. the real deal.

mslisa: so there was no competition between hollie, ari, and the band?

honeychild: none at all. they weren't jaded or on a diva trip on any level. i loved being around that kind of energy.

mslisa: tell me about your involvement in afropunk: the rock n roll nigger experience?

honeychild: i was involved in the beginning when james (spooner) was asking people around the scene about black punk and rock. to me the hardcore scene in new york peaked around 1990 - 92. i didn't get into the black rock coalition until later. i met james through friends who reached out. he started interviewing me and going to my shows. there was a camaraderie starting to evolve. i was also in the sistagrrls collective at the time. there were early screenings where i played with apollo heights and one in louisville at this deco theater downtown.  my entire family came to see afropunk!  if you could only imagine! my dad said, ' i get it now. you're not trying to be white. this is who you are.'  exactly!

i remember at that screening in louisville there was this sister who had a cute macy gray afro; like wild and cinnamon. she was with another woman who was white who was one of my fans. my brother came with his wife, who is also white. she said to that sister, 'your hair is so pretty can i touch it?' and she just did it.  sister got real upset at that. it got a bit hectic. i had to intervene with my sister-in-law, but also not try to shame her. i had to explain to her why it's not okay to touch a black person's hair even though she's married to a black man. this sort of thing happens in my world.

after afropunk evolved into a festival james got out of it. he was never interested in corporate sponsorship. if you take the title away, it is an amazing black music festival and i totally support that. i would love to play on one of the big stages, but it has become something else. it's crazy to me that the new york times does a fashion spread on it now. this is the first year in maybe 6 years that you have to pay, but you can also volunteer to get in.  you used to pay a sliding scale donation.  that's done now. it's become something like coachella, but for grace jones to me, it's worth it. i'm also looking forward to seeing suicidal tendencies.  afropunk also embraces underground and it's open to everyone. the death grips are playing which is crazy.

mslisa: who are the death grips?

honeychild: they're an underground hip hop group that got signed to a major label. they broke up and got back together. they're on a sold out tour now. last year, i saw d'angelo at afropunk. he was great! he had a few dudes from the roots backing him up for that show. have you heard his new album?

mslisa: yes. i would describe it as...abstract funk?  it's very cool.

honeychild: that's a good description!

mslisa: who do you enjoy listening to these days?

honeychild : i have big soft spot for best coast. they're from california. they sound like a 60s girl group. i enjoy a lot of old stuff.  i listen to jean grae, a local hip hop MC. you would love her! i love electro-funk and freestyle. i bought the new king britt record awhile ago -  it's very ambient. skepta i also really like him. he's a grime MC from london.

mslisa: what's grime?

honeychild: grime is dirty british hip hop. dizzy rascal is another. do you listen to big freedia?

mslisa: i love big freedia!

honeychild: grime is sort of in that genre. i also like lady sovereign; she's kind of grime. i'm basking in the glory of her first two records. i think she's really funny!

mslisa: one thing i always loved about you is that you often made or recycled your own clothes. are you still doing that?

honeychild: i've been getting back into sewing a little. i don't see much these days that inspires me.
a lot of what's going on now just isn't cut right for us. i spend my money on shoes. that's where i'll drop a dollar!

mslisa: what do you think of the series empire?

honeychild: i saw one episode and i thought it was so funny!

mslisa: it is! it was interesting to me how white folks had all these issues with it; that to them it was offensive, but black folks love it.

honeychild: because that's how we talk to each other.

mslisa: exactly! even with all the flash and glam; the language and dialogue are authentic. what do you think about rihanna and beyonce's impact on culture? i call it the black girl empire. 

honeychild: i don't consider rihanna or beyonce in the same category. for a young black woman, rihanna is a fierce, independent woman. i don't get a feminist vibe from beyonce because she flaunts the man half too much. whereas rihanna does this whole ' fuck it! i'm rihanna!' '.  she doesn't give a shit and there's no dude in the background.  from beyonce i get a little bit of a puppet feeling. she grew up in a church family. i grew up like that and i know what that's about. i sometimes feel that a lot of her music and image are contrived; to be purposely provocative and sell downloads to a mainstream audience. i just don't get authentic from beyonce. i'm not a rihanna fan, but she comes across to me as more genuine.

mslisa: girl, thank you for talking with me. you're such an amazing woman.

honeychild: thank you!