welcome to the current install of words with real bishes! a forum for us to speak our minds about our shared experiences. note: in the black queer community, people are often referred to as family.
today i welcome cori, a brilliant artist and fascinating human person. you can check out her website here.
mslisa: to begin, tell me how we met?
cori: we were both artists in the in search of sheba art show in oakland. that was like over a year ago. there were 12 of us in the show. we met opening night, just hanging out. it was cool.
mslisa: where are you from originally?
cori: from chicago, the south side.
mslisa : what brought you to california?
cori: well...everything. what i wanted to do seemed more accessible on the west coast. my art, freedom, including being gay.
mslisa: no snow.
cori: no snow, no shoveling, no ice. that's really all i need to say - the weather.
mslisa: when did you know you were family?
cori: in college doing my undergraduate study.
mslisa: tell me about the context of your work?
cori: my subjects are primarily women and women of african descent. i think i mostly paint black women because i see myself reflected more in my art. i believe there's a lot of strength in our culture and i want people to know who we are. i like to see (our bodies) in different angles, in prayer, or dancing, or in deep thought. it's interesting to me.
mslisa: tell me about your relationships with women?
cori: what do you want to know? that's a layered question.
mslisa: let me re-frame that : what is happening in your relationships with women?
cori: right now not a whole lot (laughs). it's kind of hard to explain. i need that initial attraction, but for me personally there has to be an intellectual attraction as well. i find women more interesting. they share more, they're more open to being open. i speak from a place of being a lesbian and i have been for most of my life. i don't have a whole lot of experience to compare in terms of men. for me and what i've learned, women are just more fascinating to me.
mslisa: i agree.
cori: boredom for me is not an option either. men can totally bore me. sometimes i may get in a conversation with a dude and i'll be like, 'man, i got to have you in my life!' but that's rare.
mslisa: would you ever be in a relationship with a man?
cori: sure. he'd have to be the right guy though. i learned this term recently - pansexual. have you heard of it?
mslisa: yes, but i'm not sure how that's defined. i'm still trying to figure out what cisgender means.
cori : i've never heard of that.
mslisa : girl! no clue.
cori: well the pansexual term is new to me. so is masculine of center, which is a fancy way of saying butch.
(laughter)
it's true! so what was the question? pansexual! i'm learning that i don't necessarily identify as much with being a butch lesbian as i thought i did. i would be open to a relationship with a guy if the connection was there, but i also love the energy of women.
mslisa : the feminine sensual.
cori: yeah! what it is is that i find beauty in all human creatures. we're all accessible on some level. if i got to know someone and connected with them on a spiritual level and fell in love with that person that has meaning.
mslisa: regardless of gender?
cori: oh yeah. i think that's what makes me pansexual. i'm just discovering this about myself. i could love anyone. we all have free will to love who we want, but i know a lot of people in the gay community who have zero desire to entertain a relationship with the opposite sex.
mslisa: is there a degree of conformity in the lesbian community?
cori: i think so. i don't want to be placed in a box. i don't really care what you do, but i'm open to learning new things. i'm more concerned with being seen as a person and not just a butch lesbian to fulfill some role. if you think you know who i am - it's already over.
mslisa: right. i think it's important for us as black women not to carry all these assumptions towards one another.
cori: totally! i actively practice non-judgement and if i mess up, i check myself about forming (too many) opinions about people.
mslisa: ooo...i was doing that recently.
cori: we all do it. it's human nature. it protects us in some way. it's a quality that we all have and need, but i also don't want to be limited by my own prejudices.
mslisa: what do you mean by your own prejudices?
cori: i consider myself the stereotypical angry black woman. i have issues with people outside of my community. i feel like the world is unfair - damn white people! it's obvious that i'm prejudice. the fact that they're more likely to get whatever they want than i am. even if i get angry about it it's not going to make a difference. i'm still not going to get that thing. i notice my frustration is not hurting me, but it's not helping me either. it's not helping me heal, it's not helping me be more successful.
so i try to think differently and not get too deep into that. i try to see myself as selfless, kind, diplomatic, and loving. for me all of that is transcendence. i can't get there if i'm angry all the time. i can't be that person if i want to be truly happy. who wants to die angry and bitter?
mslisa: i've seen that happen to black folks, particularly older generations. just mad all the time. they have property, they have money in the bank, they're safe, but their experiences being in america just broke them down i guess.
cori: exactly. i grew up where most of my friends were white in school.
mslisa: on the south side?
cori: yes, in the suburbs. then i went to college at SIU in southern illinois. i played softball and ruby. the only black girl on everything. that was my life for years. being out here is a whole other experience for me. i only have one white friend here. it's weird. the point i'm making is that the world totally shaped who i am. i would have never said i had prejudice before, but now i realize i have a lot of hang-ups. i'm not making this up. this is me living life and having real interactions with people. being called a nigger and being told some shit that is clearly inappropriate and then having to process that when i didn't even expect it.
i was mostly taught, you don't really want to trust white people. at the time i didn't know about people the way i do now, but i'm still very cautious.
mslisa: i think we have to be sometimes. it's interesting to me with all the discourse going on now, particularly in the liberal and progressive community, that there's a sort of cognitive dissonance. i don't think they realize that to a lot of black folks white people are all the same; liberal and conservative.
cori: that's true. they don't see that, but then how could they? i have one friend who is hanging on for dear life. i'm trying to hold their hand through the process. i don't need my friends to change who they are, but i need them to be compassionate and aware and thoughtful. that means you have to pay attention. you can't be self-involved. and don't ever say that racism isn't a problem anymore. you can't discount so many hundreds of years of oppression. you can't pretend that something doesn't exist when it clearly does.
mslisa: i think as well, those communities tend to be isolated, despite their politics. everyone around them is a reflection of themselves; of similar backgrounds and shared progressive values. black folks also can isolate themselves. that's not me. i'm in the world and i'm not afraid of those uncomfortable conversations or spaces. i also have white relatives. i think for us to be healthy human beings, we have to be in the world with other people and not isolate ourselves.
cori: i agree. i'm isolating myself from white people mostly because of my issues, but i'm trying to heal myself. it difficult because i can't deal with them.
mslisa: but corey you're a highly functioning individual.
cori: well, you're a sister, you see me, and you listen. you're like the second person i've talked to all week. i mean, i'm here, but i'm intolerant. i can't deal with white people. if i hear something fucked up or someone says something fucked up, i get all emotional and it throws me off. i feel like i have to protect myself.
mslisa: so you're walls are up?
cori: yeah, they're pretty high and i'm okay with that. i know it's not going to be this way forever. i'll change and over time i'll heal. being out in the world and interacting with people and getting more angry isn't helping. so yeah...that's real life and real talk. i don't know. i have to be more brave i guess.
mslisa: well you're being brave right now, putting yourself out there. talking to you is healing for me because i understand. we all have our struggles, fears, and anxieties.
cori: totally. i just want to be in a place where i can be confident enough to stand up for myself. right now i'm not.
mslisa : do you think that's going to be a hard process?
cori: i don't know. i really don't.
mslisa: do you feel that a lot of this discontent comes from being in america?
cori: yeah. i think i need to get out of the country for awhile. i mean, this vacation i'm about to have is going to change my life. i need a different perspective. i need to see outside the humanity that exists for me here. this is not us. like you and refa were talking earlier about africa and traveling. what's happening here in america is not us. everything i'm supposed to assimilate to is foreign to me. i'm bored here.
mslisa: bingo! i'll tell you, i've traveled a lot and i've been gone for weeks, months. it helped me unravel my american mind.
cori: right right! see, i need that. all i need is a frame of reference - even for my art. i need more depth of experience that is not just my black american experience.
mslisa: you know, one of my paintings in the sheba show i finished after being in belize for awhile. i married a garifuna dude, i was running around in the jungle. i was teaching secondary school girls and bicycling to work every day. i didn't see a white person for daaaaays. it was like there were nothing but black people in the world. it was a trip! in my experiences abroad, i learned to devalue a lot of american things. in order to live here and survive you get caught up in the whole matrix. you can see it. people freaking out. it's a neurosis. whether it's about sex, money, success, envy; breaking their backs over a $ 600,000.00 mortgage. the fuck?! i'm cool with the american circus, the culture. i don't value it. i've disciplined myself to be somewhat detached, which is challenging because we are in it unfortunately.
cori: i hear you.
mslisa: it all came to a grinding halt for me around 2008. i couldn't afford to leave as long as i did before. i went to guatemala again in 2009, but i had to hustle hard to do that trip for just two weeks.
cori: me too! 2008 was all fucked up. i had a corporate job and that ended, which in a way is a good thing. if i was still doing that i wouldn't have time for anything, especially my art. i was making good money, but i was stressed the hell out. i didn't even take advantage of it like taking the time to travel. i was caught up in my grind.
mslisa: this is cool. we're really getting into it! so, tell me about jimi's haze? i like that piece.
cori: jimi hendrix has always been one of my favorite iconic musicians. (in my work) i like to match the spirit of who the person is or was. jimi's passion was unmatched in his time.
mslisa: one of your images, cori pillows was used in the flyer for the sheba show. can you tell me about that?
cori: she's from a portrait i did. pamela (the curator of in search of sheba) wanted to use her for the flyer and show poster. i was honored really. she represents the natural beauty in us and the community.
mslisa: it's a lovely piece. i kept a bunch of those flyers.
cori: thank you!
mslisa: you know, i never get used to seeing my name in a show. it trips me out. my art is kind of a private process. it's difficult for me to put it out there. i'm also lazy about getting my shit together, but when i do it's quite amazing the feedback i get. i don't see what others see because i'm the creator and rather critical of my work. i'm always thinking and reassessing and thinking; about composition, line, form, and texture. i can go for hours. basquait said being an artist is a constant process of addition and subtraction.
cori: i totally feel you on all of that. he was right!
mslisa: thank you for talking with me and being so open, sis.
cori: thank you!
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